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	<title>Comments on: Dysfunctional Beliefs of a Jehovah&#8217;s Witness Apostate</title>
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	<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/</link>
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		<title>By: Kelly (the first one)</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-81111</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly (the first one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-81111</guid>
		<description>@Andy ... I put that in because it seemed that earlier people&#039;s comments were negated because they were Jehovah&#039;s Witnesses.  

@Russ...I get what you&#039;re saying, Russ. And I agree that there are such groups, Mansons and Heaven&#039;s Gate people come to mind, but the definition of a cult is varied and not everyone agrees. In fact there are people who say all religions are cults because they say they are the one true way and followers must adhere to the beliefs of that religion or something bad will happen to them.

I thought this was a good reference for the different ways cult can be defined.  http://www.religio.de/cudef.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andy &#8230; I put that in because it seemed that earlier people&#8217;s comments were negated because they were Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses.  </p>
<p>@Russ&#8230;I get what you&#8217;re saying, Russ. And I agree that there are such groups, Mansons and Heaven&#8217;s Gate people come to mind, but the definition of a cult is varied and not everyone agrees. In fact there are people who say all religions are cults because they say they are the one true way and followers must adhere to the beliefs of that religion or something bad will happen to them.</p>
<p>I thought this was a good reference for the different ways cult can be defined.  <a href="http://www.religio.de/cudef.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.religio.de/cudef.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-81075</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-81075</guid>
		<description>Not all cults are to that extreme! but yes totally agree some can be very dangerous. The main point for me is that everyone has an opinion and its wrong to invalidate someones because you disagree. Read 7 reasons why your wrong no matter what.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all cults are to that extreme! but yes totally agree some can be very dangerous. The main point for me is that everyone has an opinion and its wrong to invalidate someones because you disagree. Read 7 reasons why your wrong no matter what.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Painter</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-80829</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Painter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 00:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-80829</guid>
		<description>Not being a j.w. does not necessarily invalidate Kelly&#039;s comment. But her lack of understanding the real meaning of the word cult does invalidate her comments. A cult is not just a minority religion. It&#039;s about control. You can&#039;t just walk away. It destroys peoples lives and drives them to suicide because they&#039;re trapped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not being a j.w. does not necessarily invalidate Kelly&#8217;s comment. But her lack of understanding the real meaning of the word cult does invalidate her comments. A cult is not just a minority religion. It&#8217;s about control. You can&#8217;t just walk away. It destroys peoples lives and drives them to suicide because they&#8217;re trapped.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-80774</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 20:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-80774</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with what kelly 1 said. I also agree with kelly 2, why does her not being jw negate her comments. Melissa is not jw or religious in anyway but she wrote the article. People&#039;s views are subjective. The main thing is if you make a point being able to explain why you came to that conclussion, which Andy you seem to struggling to do! What may be obvious to you is not nessarily obvious to other people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with what kelly 1 said. I also agree with kelly 2, why does her not being jw negate her comments. Melissa is not jw or religious in anyway but she wrote the article. People&#8217;s views are subjective. The main thing is if you make a point being able to explain why you came to that conclussion, which Andy you seem to struggling to do! What may be obvious to you is not nessarily obvious to other people.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-79009</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2011 05:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-79009</guid>
		<description>Please take this in a positive way but the answer is obvious, so why do you ask?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please take this in a positive way but the answer is obvious, so why do you ask?</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-78610</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Dec 2011 21:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-78610</guid>
		<description>Andy- please elaborate! Why does the fact that Kelly is not a JW negate the rest of her post? (I am a different Kelly to the one who posted the previous message)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy- please elaborate! Why does the fact that Kelly is not a JW negate the rest of her post? (I am a different Kelly to the one who posted the previous message)</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-78388</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Dec 2011 06:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-78388</guid>
		<description>&quot;Just a couple thoughts. I am not a JW, by the way, since that seems to be an important part of this conversation&quot;
It is Kelly, which negates the rest of your post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Just a couple thoughts. I am not a JW, by the way, since that seems to be an important part of this conversation&#8221;<br />
It is Kelly, which negates the rest of your post.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-77957</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 02:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-77957</guid>
		<description>Just a couple thoughts.  I am not a JW, by the way, since that seems to be an important part of this conversation.  

If you&#039;re talking about beliefs here, what is a cult?  By definition it is basically a group whose views are abnormal or bizarre...religious groups would be people following ideas outside the norm (mainstream Christianity in this instant).

So in essence, they are people who believe what most don&#039;t.  Sounds a little like what you&#039;re trying to get people to do...think outside what they&#039;ve been told.

Looking at your list, of course some of the items seem extreme, but I felt that many of the items if you were to switch the word &quot;witness&quot; with Christian (or most other religions or philosophies) many would still be applicable.  And many such as not having sex before marriage, would apply to lots of religious groups.

I find it interesting that one group is targeted here, when many groups, even mainstream groups do much of the same.  And to use the word cult, is to play into the belief system of the Christian church who defines cults. A cult is categorized based on the fact that they don&#039;t follow the basic tenets of Christianity (many of which were begun long before Jesus was around, by the way).  

I think an interesting article, might be the looking into why people who believe something different are viewed so negatively.  If we&#039;re talking dysfunctional beliefs, how about believing that a list would define individuals, that a strong belief that is different from others is too extreme, that what is &quot;normal&quot; is right, and that for some reason, no matter what the topic (JW, abortion, gay marriage, Islam), someone who has a strong belief system (even if it&#039;s wrong in our eyes) is to be judged and found wanting.  Who are we to judge?  And if you do believe we have the right to judge, what gives us the right to condemn them?  

I think we all have to be very careful how we view others and be aware of the blinders we have that affect our view of them.  You come from a non-religious background, so much of this sounds extreme. I on the other hand am what one would call very religious (although I hate the term religion because of what it has come to mean), and  I find much of it to be common with those who are very religious.  

I often tell my students (I&#039;m a middle school U.S. history teacher by the way), to be very careful who you condemn and expect laws to be made against groups of people.  Because you never know who in the future will be targeted.  Yes you may believe they are a cult and that they should be banished, but what happens if mainstream Christianity takes over?  Sure they&#039;d banish them, but they&#039;d banish this blog too, much too subversive.  And the idea that &quot;self-love&quot; is the basis of relationships...goes totally against what the Bible teaches.  So you would definitely be on the &quot;trying to brainwash people into wrong thoughts&quot; list.  But you&#039;re not, right?  Neither do the Witnesses think that&#039;s what they are doing.  But, obviously, your way is the right way...they think theirs is too.  

It&#039;s a very tricky thing balancing beliefs and the world around us.  I applaud your mindfulness and hope that it brings you much balance in your life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a couple thoughts.  I am not a JW, by the way, since that seems to be an important part of this conversation.  </p>
<p>If you&#8217;re talking about beliefs here, what is a cult?  By definition it is basically a group whose views are abnormal or bizarre&#8230;religious groups would be people following ideas outside the norm (mainstream Christianity in this instant).</p>
<p>So in essence, they are people who believe what most don&#8217;t.  Sounds a little like what you&#8217;re trying to get people to do&#8230;think outside what they&#8217;ve been told.</p>
<p>Looking at your list, of course some of the items seem extreme, but I felt that many of the items if you were to switch the word &#8220;witness&#8221; with Christian (or most other religions or philosophies) many would still be applicable.  And many such as not having sex before marriage, would apply to lots of religious groups.</p>
<p>I find it interesting that one group is targeted here, when many groups, even mainstream groups do much of the same.  And to use the word cult, is to play into the belief system of the Christian church who defines cults. A cult is categorized based on the fact that they don&#8217;t follow the basic tenets of Christianity (many of which were begun long before Jesus was around, by the way).  </p>
<p>I think an interesting article, might be the looking into why people who believe something different are viewed so negatively.  If we&#8217;re talking dysfunctional beliefs, how about believing that a list would define individuals, that a strong belief that is different from others is too extreme, that what is &#8220;normal&#8221; is right, and that for some reason, no matter what the topic (JW, abortion, gay marriage, Islam), someone who has a strong belief system (even if it&#8217;s wrong in our eyes) is to be judged and found wanting.  Who are we to judge?  And if you do believe we have the right to judge, what gives us the right to condemn them?  </p>
<p>I think we all have to be very careful how we view others and be aware of the blinders we have that affect our view of them.  You come from a non-religious background, so much of this sounds extreme. I on the other hand am what one would call very religious (although I hate the term religion because of what it has come to mean), and  I find much of it to be common with those who are very religious.  </p>
<p>I often tell my students (I&#8217;m a middle school U.S. history teacher by the way), to be very careful who you condemn and expect laws to be made against groups of people.  Because you never know who in the future will be targeted.  Yes you may believe they are a cult and that they should be banished, but what happens if mainstream Christianity takes over?  Sure they&#8217;d banish them, but they&#8217;d banish this blog too, much too subversive.  And the idea that &#8220;self-love&#8221; is the basis of relationships&#8230;goes totally against what the Bible teaches.  So you would definitely be on the &#8220;trying to brainwash people into wrong thoughts&#8221; list.  But you&#8217;re not, right?  Neither do the Witnesses think that&#8217;s what they are doing.  But, obviously, your way is the right way&#8230;they think theirs is too.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a very tricky thing balancing beliefs and the world around us.  I applaud your mindfulness and hope that it brings you much balance in your life.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-65138</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 00:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-65138</guid>
		<description>I was born into the JW&#039;s. It is a serious mind and environmental control group. It has left a poison in me that I knew was still there when I left 15 years ago. It has been slowly killing me ever since, and now I am starting to get rid of the poison. But the cost so far in my life? Incalculable. The damage and psychological suffering so far? Unbearable.

They built a prison for me which I did not  escape when I escaped the organization: the prison was my own mind, as programmed by them.

It should be illegal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was born into the JW&#8217;s. It is a serious mind and environmental control group. It has left a poison in me that I knew was still there when I left 15 years ago. It has been slowly killing me ever since, and now I am starting to get rid of the poison. But the cost so far in my life? Incalculable. The damage and psychological suffering so far? Unbearable.</p>
<p>They built a prison for me which I did not  escape when I escaped the organization: the prison was my own mind, as programmed by them.</p>
<p>It should be illegal.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://mindfulconstruct.com/2009/06/28/dysfunctional-beliefs-of-a-jehovahs-witness-apostate/#comment-59047</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindfulconstruct.com/?p=1091#comment-59047</guid>
		<description>Im coming out! As an apostate! Whooo hoo!!
I was born and raised a JW, baptized at 13, and pioneered right after. 
Now here at 27 being away from the religion for nearly 10 years, I was talking to a friend yesterday who made it very clear to me that by me pursuing personal development trainings and doing volunteer work in the community and finding my own ways to make this world a better place I am clearly going against the religion and therefore am an apostate. For these things I &quot;cannot do on my own, and according to the religion should be doing these things only under Jehovah&quot;. The funny thing is, well not so funny, is he is a 30something gay man who still lives in fear of Jehovah, and believes that being gay will be forgiven, but my apostasy will not...well if him drinking himself silly every night, doing drugs, slaving to a corporate world, and having a tumultuous relationship with his now ex boyfriend, is forgivable but me living the best life I can, doing community service, developing myself, helping others, but not doing it based on the religion is unforgivable then I dont want to be forgiven! For the first time ever, I revel in this word, apostate!  I have shifted my beliefs and negative connotations on the word apostate and now am so happy to be one. I am informed, I am free, I love and am loved without fear or judgment! I no longer love based on fear, now I just love because I choose to love! I love myself, I love my life, I love myself and this wicked wicked world, and will continue as long as I breathe to stand for transformation in this world as it is now, so that it can be a place of love without &quot;God&quot; having to wipe out the &quot;wicked&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im coming out! As an apostate! Whooo hoo!!<br />
I was born and raised a JW, baptized at 13, and pioneered right after.<br />
Now here at 27 being away from the religion for nearly 10 years, I was talking to a friend yesterday who made it very clear to me that by me pursuing personal development trainings and doing volunteer work in the community and finding my own ways to make this world a better place I am clearly going against the religion and therefore am an apostate. For these things I &#8220;cannot do on my own, and according to the religion should be doing these things only under Jehovah&#8221;. The funny thing is, well not so funny, is he is a 30something gay man who still lives in fear of Jehovah, and believes that being gay will be forgiven, but my apostasy will not&#8230;well if him drinking himself silly every night, doing drugs, slaving to a corporate world, and having a tumultuous relationship with his now ex boyfriend, is forgivable but me living the best life I can, doing community service, developing myself, helping others, but not doing it based on the religion is unforgivable then I dont want to be forgiven! For the first time ever, I revel in this word, apostate!  I have shifted my beliefs and negative connotations on the word apostate and now am so happy to be one. I am informed, I am free, I love and am loved without fear or judgment! I no longer love based on fear, now I just love because I choose to love! I love myself, I love my life, I love myself and this wicked wicked world, and will continue as long as I breathe to stand for transformation in this world as it is now, so that it can be a place of love without &#8220;God&#8221; having to wipe out the &#8220;wicked&#8221;.</p>
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